Data Corruption Update
The Knowledge Base article explaining about the data corruption issue when saving or editing specific programs that are stored on a WHS-based system has been updated to include the following
These issues occur in the following scenario:
- A home server is under an extreme load. For example, lots of files are being copied to the home server.
- At the same time, a user is editing files that are already saved in a shared folder on the home server.
- The program that the user is using to edit these files is one of the programs that are listed in this article.
Although this Knowledge Base article was first authored before the team could consistently repro the issue and provide more specifics, the Windows Home Server team thought it was important to make people aware of it. For now, please follow the advice in this section and do not use the programs that are listed in this article to save or to edit program-specific files that are stored on a Windows Home Server-based system. You can still use the Windows Home Server home computer backup to back up and restore files from and to your home computers.
Todd Headrick, the product planning manager on the Windows Home Server team also had this to say to Computerworld:
“The problem isn’t one hundred percent reproducible, and depends on quite a few different factors. Home Server has to be under an extreme load while doing a large file copy. The flaw comes into play only in instances when the file server’s cache is full and the user is editing a file previously saved to a shared folder.
But we thought it was important enough to generalize [the bug] so people would take it seriously, even though we took a PR [public relations] hit.”
Now I doubt many people running the software have NOT reached that point yet and as we can see the problem depends on quite a few different factors coming into play. All we can do is wait for the fix to become available.
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Extreme load because there is insufficient memory and/or insufficient bandwidth and/or inadequate cpu and/or insufficient storage space? Lots of answers needed here and those that have experienced corruption need to be explicit about their systems. Good that Microsoft hit the panic button.
I use 2 gb RAM, a dual 1 gbe network card (2 gb duplex), a hyperthreading Intel 2.4ghz cpu, 2 tb storage with 7 hard drives, four of which are in a RAID 5 setup and 45 percent space – no problems.
@Bob
Question, why use WHS if your using RAID-5? As it cannot be for backup since RAID 5 already does this.
And who wants to be restricted by the WHS console? WHS was built upon Windows Server 2003, but acts just like a “Starter Edition” labeled as Home Server.
Who wants to use the old obsolete Windows Server 2003 code that also suffers poor throughput performance?
Seems WHS was “dumb down’ to increase sales so as to recover loss profits. In addition, there are plenty of other additional issues that WHS has NOT been resolved yet.
What should consumers think about WHS being ready for purchasing, when Microsoft must hit the PANIC button?
Would you buy an automobile if the manufacture was in a PANIC about the functioning of it’s product? Then again Microsoft NEVER actually recalls it’s bad products, which end users must cope, deal and live with…
Obviously no corporation would use WHS to conduct business. How can home users expect WHS to be be taken as a real server when it’s actually used mostly as something meant to be played with, especially for evaluation rather than use?
So the rule of thumb is NEVER to actually use WHS unless in a limited load, limited range, limited manner?
We can now add another item to the WHS shouldn’t do list.
The WHS Shouldn’t Do List II
you shouldn’t saving files from applications…
you shouldn’t REBOOT – may result in data corruption
you shouldn’t defrag – unless only with $M defrag tools
you shouldn’t use Media Streaming – when backing up files
you shouldn’t use Outlook – your $M email
you shouldn’t use $M Money – your financial statements
you shouldn’t use P2P – your download files
you shouldn’t use Photo Galley – your Photos
you shouldn’t use OneNote – your $M notes
you shouldn’t use Duplicate – your files and PC backup
you shouldn’t copy .vhd files – your $M virtual drives
you shouldn’t use ISP (Comcast, AT&T, Time Warner) – RIAA lawsuits and blocked ports
And now, you shouldn’t expect WHS to actually work hard.
Can anyone explain what “Extreme Load” actually means?
Is Microsoft stating that you can only expect WHS to function at 90% or 20% CPU load? Even at 100% load, how long would it take, a second, minute, hour, or day of use? Then again, why should anyone expect any load at all to cause DATA CORRUPTION?
If Microsoft cannot fix this issue, they had better build “Load Limiters” with a “WARNING” to all WHS users, NOT to load their MS server to such and such capacity.
There’s no guarantee the problem will be fixed…
And what about the WHS bandwidth throughput issue?
http://www.regmedia.co.uk/2007/12/20/long-goodbye2.jpg
@Hilary H
My system is custom-buuilt and is over three years old and had four drives using a Promise SX4000 card. RAID 5 prevents a single drive failure from downing my WHS.
Do you have a WHS box and have experience running it following beta testing or are you just a nay sayer?
I just wish people would openly state that they are running a WHS and whether they are having issues. I can’t make out whether the comments are coming from Microsoft-bashers or genuine users.
Thanks for your comment Bob Crook.
Nay Sayer or is it Microsoft Genuine Seller?
Who wants to be restricted by the WHS console? Microsoft dumbs down it’s Server 2003 into WHS, and you get excited?
WHS corrupts your data and it’s NOT fixed, but “life is good”?
Then some individuals use RAID 5, and think WHS is needed for backup by WHS? As if WHS backup actually was proven to work, which Microsoft has already warned about needing to backup WHS!
RAID-5 allows real time HDD replacement, but WHS doesn’t and that’s better?
By all means don’t have WHS actually function properly and correctly, as any extreme load may equivocate as “abuse of your WHS server”?
It just seems like someone is pushing WHS as the next best thing here. How about getting WHS to work and function as intended as Microsoft stated, “Introducing a simpler, smarter way for families to organize, share and protect photos, videos, music and much more”.
I already tried WHS since October 2007, to be very disappointing, NOT because of the hyped up propaganda, but from personal experience using the product.
Nobody has even bother to explain why WHS MUST first format all external USB/eSATA HDD’s just to share your data! Honestly, how many WHS users want to copy their 700GB data files over to WHS by going through their PC at snail speed?
And be told to increase transfer throughput speeds, just turn off features and functions, so what’s the point then?
Imagine going out for dinner, expecting a wonderful meal, paying as much as or more than your PC, to end up with a lunch box, fit for some kiddie attending elementary school…
No thanks already been there, done that before. I will use Naslite 2, Synology or another Linux distro and hope $MS will adapt Windows Server 2008 sooner… Which is just a few months away…
So an inexperienced WHS user and a basher too. Thanks for your input. I respect your point of view. WHS isn’t perfect and I don’t think anyone disagrees with that statement. I have two WHSs now and just delighted with what they do and they run perfectly without data corruption so far. It concerns me that there is data corruption but let’s allow the boffins to research and I’m sure in time they’ll let us know.
The issue was acknowledged in October, when Microsoft warned “not to copy data files that contain alternate [NTFS] data streams to Windows Home Server shared folders.”
Linux isn’t perfect, but it’s FREE unlike WHS! And unlike WHS doesn’t have the issue of DATA CORRUPTION.
FREENAS is FREE folks! http://www.freenas.org
supporting: CIFS (samba), FTP, NFS, AFP, RSYNC, iSCSI protocols, S.M.A.R.T., local user authentication, Software RAID (0,1,5) with a Full WEB configuration interface. FreeNAS takes less than 32MB once installed on Compact Flash, hard drive or USB key.
and…
Naslite v2 works great if you don;t mind spending $30
http://www.serverelements.com
And unlike WHS…
NASLite-2 HDD transforms a basic computer into a dedicated SMB/CIFS, NFS, AFP, FTP, HTTP and RSYNC file server. NASLite-2 HDD supports IDE, SATA, SCSI, USB and FireWire connected fixed disk drives as well as hardware RAID.
If you just needing to backup your OS, and you haven’t got an extra 1000 dollars laying around to waste, so you can just buy perhaps the most expensive WHS backup method that only duplicates your data, you might consider Acronis True Image with UR (universal restore) as the total cost of ownership is a lot less, and offers more…
the ability to backup an entire system (32/64 bit) or individual files or folders; perform a disaster recovery backup or restore files, folders, or an entire disk from an image; manage backup/restore tasks remotely; restore the system to dissimilar hardware or to a virtual machine, or just a restore of individual files and folders, 256-bit archive encryption, etc…
Flash demo: http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/products/ATICW/#
@Bob Crook
So the easy, simple and friendly WHS product should only be used by WHS computer guru experts only? What are you saying? I thought the WHS appliance was intended for non-experts, right?
Why should Windows Home Server users be BLAMED for WHS buggy code? The FACT is, Microsoft needs to actually FIX this DATA CORRUPTION issue, yesterday!
I issue isn’t to have anyone and everyone attack each other, especially regarding your customers, whom are concern about using your product, but rather to expect in this situation for Microsoft to actually FIX this troublesome problem!
And so what, if even there are new WHS customers that are NOT WHS experts! Does it take a WHS expert to use WHS?
If anything, it seems from this forum, the news and media that it does require everyone to be a WHS expert just to work around the many WHS bugs!
Why should anyone need to pay for buggy software?
WHS is becoming more and more of a pain, as it’s NOT only a matter of buggy code, anti-piracy measures, DRM, activations, multiple validations thanks to WGA, but us customers need to be told, were all too dumb to realize DATA CORRUPTION isn’t anything to worry about or complain in addition to all the other issues adding up!
Microsoft, you need to FIX WHS issues or start expecting REFUNDS! And if you don’t deliver customer satisfaction, expect us to BOYCOTT MICROSOFT.
Customers will NOT admire Microsoft selling us a crippled OS requiring constant patches, service packs, hot fixes to be dependent upon Microsoft draconian stipulations and then be told, upgrade by replacing our investments since Microsoft isn’t going to be willing to support it’s products anymore. Case in hand, Windows 95…
You know a lot of individuals have finally got use to working with Windows XP, which only needed to be improved, NOT replaced over again with the Vista mess.
There is no doubt in how everyone is excited about having a home server, but we all want it to be something useful, something practical and certainly something to meet our expectations, NOT another lame attempt by Microsoft to capture yet another market for themselves.
Compare WHS with “Clark Connect” which is a Linux Distro just for network management. It can be a Network Proxy, Webserver, File server, MultiWAN managment, router, mail, anti-virus scanner, IP Security Firewall… and FREE for community edition!
http://www.ash-v285.ash.youtube.com/get_video?video_id=iCWASH9r4s8
How does WHS compare with Clark Connection Linux Distro?
The Clark Connection software offers your organization and home user enterprise-level server features. Clark Connect has allowed individuals to implement everything that they value in an IT solution – LAN security, file sharing, email and backup – all without having to become IT experts ourselves!
WHS is the “dumb down” limited to a console edition that needs third party add-in solutions which doesn’t offer the same value for your money.
Anyone wanting to buy WHS should ask themselves what is my total cost of ownership, performance, expectations and ethical responsibility, because unlike proprietary source code, Linux is built upon open source code, allowing everyone to build upon, publicly review and distribute accordingly to the GPLv3 license unlike WHS.
See for yourself at:
http://www.clarkconnect.com
Hi Robert,
The alternate data streams (ADS) was resolved with the November (2007) update from MS and is not related to this issue.
Hi Guys,
Pleae try to avoid turning your comments into a Microsoft v Linux bashing. Thanks Phill.
I don’t think it’s about bushing here, but rather choice!
If Microsoft can provide the better solution, fine we will all agree and most of all, be happier if this is the case?
Sometimes there exist other NAS solutions that are Linux which doesn’t mean it’s bushing Microsoft for it. It’s just a matter of getting the best solution out to the customer in reality.
It would also be unwise for anyone to disregard every other solution, only to assume Microsoft can provide a NAS product, especially for the typical home user.
FreeNAS is a wonderful product, just as the Clark Connection Linux Distro is and the others. We should learn from these examples if we really want to care to improve WHS, right?
I have been interested in purchasing a WHS for what it claims to do and I am impressed that the WHS team is willing to openly take this bashing (not bushing) so that we can remain informed of the status about this important issue. I just wish that this thread could remain a place for me to receive status reports rather than to have to dig through long rants from people who have nothing better to do than to hijack this thread to promote linux or any other alternative to WHS.
@ John Riley
This WHS website is wonderful. I’m sure everyone appreciates it. However, the issues are NOT with the website or the opinions, like yours, but rather the ISSUES that WHS is experiencing, to which EVERYONE needs them to be FIXED!
As for alternatives to WHS, all the better because if WHS really was the best solution what are you so worried about?
If WHS didn’t have these major serious issues there wouldn’t be the need for customers to rant in the first place.
Every hear of FEEDBACK? Does Microsoft listen to it’s customers?
Thanks for your comments guys (and girls).
Folks,
Some of you seem to be the always “glass-half-empty” type. Why not take it a little bit easier. YES, there are many ways to “skin-a-cat”, that includes backup solutions. I’ve been working on bleeding edge enterprise backup solutions for year, but guess what? My personal backup “ways” where very … immature-ish. I believe that WHS may not be THE perfect backup solution, but it is perfect backup for certain group of people. This includes me. HP has problems with building up the inventory for their server, so evidence is there.
Any let’s not get into the “religious” war on what is better what is not in OS world. I’ve worked on both Linux and Microsoft, used commercial and open source software, and … guess what? I had my share of disappointments with ALL of them. Granted, it is “nice” to have an access to source code, but then what? Do most of people have the time to got “deep” into it to debug why a certain JAXS routine doesn’t perform the way is should, and NOBODY form the “community” responds for MONTHS to your problem on the official support website (wordpress is the pebble in the my shoe lately)?
I AM convinced that Microsoft is going to fix the corruption soon (if they haven’t already, and are just going through a vigorous testing..). Finally let’s remember, NOBODY is FORCEING you to using WHS. If you don’t like it or you don’t like the company – go and use something else. :). If you believe that WHS is crippled get a full blown Linux or SBS Windows Server. You will get EVERYTHING in them if you want. In my case – I don’t.
@Bogdan S.
you state, “I AM convinced that Microsoft is going to fix the corruption soon”.
Well, it’s been yet another month and KB 946676 still remains unresolved, unfixed and without any resolution.
And as for open source code, yes it’s indeed open to all, unlike $M closed proprietary source code which prevents you from doing anything at all. With open source code, you have the right, and opportunity. It’s more than just nice as you put it.
Now you see why you must wait for $M closed source proprietary to provide you with a solution to their data corruption flaw! Had this been an issue with open source code, anyone wanting to fix it can review the source code and provide a solution anywhere in the world.
You can continue to hope for a fix, I already switch over to the FREE open source code solutions and haven’t regretted it for even one moment. I don’t need WHS especially when it’s broken to be paying for buggy code!
Hey all,
From what I understand (and as stated earlier) “the WHS Team which highlighted that the data corruption issue which affects some users will NOT effect those using just the one hard drive.”
Does this mean only one hard drive added as server storage? I am assuming that indicates the problem is with either the file duplication or the system that allows multiple drives to appear as one. Am I able to plug in my external drive (which already contains files) and just use it as a shared drive by using windows explorer?
I currently have the HP470 WHS with only the single drive for storage use.
Hi James Skifter,
Adding the external drive as a shared drive will, i’m afraid cause the problems discussed above.